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 Topic: General Gaming Thread Wii/Ps3/XB360 etc..
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joshlowe
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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Anzati wrote:
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Great a real answer, thanks. |
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Removed as I am retarded.
Edited by joshlowe on 22 September 2006 at 5:48pm
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Sirlagerlot
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 5:29pm | IP Logged
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Anzati was thanking you genuinely for actually giving a decent answer Josh, no sarcasm there...I think..
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Inferno
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
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Rosalie wrote:
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*Sigh* For one it's graphics are pretty much as good as the 360, plus
if all you think about games is the graphics then I pity you. |
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That's bullsh*t. Show me one screenshot that's anywhere near as good as an early 360 game.
Alas, I can't. I am only going on what was said at E3 and the Nintendo conference the other day. But what I saw of Red Steel at E3 which was played on a modded Gamecube, it looked pretty damn good.
Don't make emotionally weighted jabs at my taste in games. The fact is
that graphics are generally a measure of the power of the machine, thus
what actually goes into it. That comment is nothing more than a dodge.
And sighing is patronising. Please don't.
Sorry if I offended but I seen way too many people moan for the sake of moaning over something trivial as the price. I was just glad it was under £200!
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The technology in the controller is revolutionary and expensive, so that bumps up the price. |
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We know the controller costs $60. Even if you remove the price from the
Wii's price, leaving it controller-less, it's STILL a rip-off.
That is incorrect, the ACTUAL controller costs $39.99 and £29.99, it is only about $60 (and £45) when you buy the nunchuck aswell. I know that distracts my original point :P but ok lets take off the price of the controller and nunchuck which is £45 and Wii Sports would probably be aboot £30ish. That leaves us with about £105 for just the console, not bad eh?
Compare that the £60 cores launch price of about £210 and take of the controller's price, 32.99 (dearer than the apparent expensive Wii controller) and ya get about £177. So the actual 360 console on its own price of £177 to the Wii's of £105 doesn't sound too bad in comparison since the 360 is technically superior, yes?
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Wii Sports is hardly a bunch of 'tech demos' and from what I've
seen of it , it looks really good. Heck it even won the game critics
award at E3! Which even beat the likes of Spore!
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It doesn't matter how good it is - the fact is that it looks blatantly simple to make.
Game aren't simple or cheap to make y'know, the fact that the console actually comes with a game that is included in the original is a bonus, unlike the 360!
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A couple of quid to download a game like Ocarina of Time is a bargain IMO. |
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They're still making money from it.
And? If they weren't in it for the money, what would be the point! Perhaps they sould go down the line of Microsoft and be actually losing money on it's console!
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Plus the Virtual console will allow unknown or small developers
to produce games for the fraction of the cost they would have done if
they had fully commercial release.
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Which will ultimately result in more money for Nintendo since this generation they'll have a monopoly on those tiny developers.
Do you have some bitter resentment from Nintendo or something? I'm sure if Microsoft and Sony catch onto this and do the same (which I know Microsoft lets X-box Live users download demos and as we know Sony will probably steal the idea ^_~) But the point that the Virtual Console is an added bonus bumping up the price and is a extra for the gamer, thus help compensating for it being a 'rip off'.
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| Twillight Princess and Trauma Center: Second Opinion are hardly 'arcadey'. |
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Zelda games tend to have little to no characterisation and the plots aren't exactly complex either.
I take it you don't play Zelda games...
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Surely this is what every good company does, to gain PROFIT!
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Not if it means overcharging to a ridiculous degree.
But they aren't, the Gamecube on launch was £129.99 ($199.99) which only came with a controller. That is £50 cheaper but didn't come with a game and the nun chuck add on for the Wii controller, hardly overcharging if the the Wii is just an updated Gamecube.
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But seriously the Wii will retail at £179 which comes with the console,
one controller, one nun chuck and Wii Sports (which has Tennis,
Baseball, Bowling, Golf and Boxing confirmed for it) which is pretty
good when compared to the core 360 which is £200 and includes only a
controller and no game! |
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It does however, come with hardware that looks to be at least twice as
powerful, a hard-drive, mp3 playing/ripping capabilitties, etc.
Thing is, Nintendo are focusing on what they should be doing created a games console, personally I don't care about DVD player or playing MP3's on my games console. I have a DVD player and MP3 player for that (since I like my music on the go! ^_^) Plus I didn't use the DVD player on my PS2 because it was crap compared to the DVD player I already had.
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| So even if the Wii isn't as powerful or as graphically superior, it is good for it's price. |
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No it's not.
Oh but it is. (Yeah, I can do that too! ^_~)
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Plus in this day and age I'd rather focus on gameplay than graphics.
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Then Nintendo should be charging a price that reflects that.
They do, the games are usually pretty good and well worth the price, I thankyou. ^_~
Again, what Josh Lowe says - "I agree that graphics and DVD aren't essential for a console.
But if they don't have those options, I don't expect the price to be the same as one that does."
Your last point is moot, since the price isn't the same as the core X-box as the Wii is £20 cheaper and £30 than it was on it's launch...
"Gameplay" isn't some amazing thing you can build into the hardware. We
already know how much the controller costs and as high as it is, it
doesn't account for the price of the machine.
Look at my reasons above ^_^
For that matter, the DS is a bit of a rip off too.
Bloomin' hell, don't look at a PSP then! =O
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Rodimus Prime
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 5:41pm | IP Logged
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Graphical power is a factor in cost, but not in how good a machine is.
The most powerful console of any gener ation has NEVER won its round of the console war.
If the Zelda games lack plot/ characterisation what games do you play with such great plots? Outside Japanese RPG's I cant really think of any.
Loads of companies charge high mark ups on there products, you think a 32" sony TV costs anywhere near £2000 to make, how about any Apple laptop.
Premium brands all charge a markup and good luck to them! Commie
The 360 to me does not represent value- its a powerful games machine and what else? No HD movies, no innovation, in fact it has one game I might enjoy, the rest, in my opinion, suck.
This year the GC has sold more units in Japan than the 360- yeah graphics really are the be all and end all!
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joshlowe
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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Sirlagerlot wrote:
| Anzati was thanking you genuinely for actually giving a decent answer Josh, no sarcasm there...I think.. |
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Damn,I read it as get a real answer.
Completely my bad.
Sorry Anzati.
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Anzati
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
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joshlowe wrote:
Sirlagerlot wrote:
| Anzati was thanking you genuinely for actually giving a decent answer Josh, no sarcasm there...I think.. |
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Damn,I read it as get a real answer.
Completely my bad.
Sorry Anzati.
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 Not a problem. I was on my way out of work at the time, so didn't have time to go into detail. I may not agree with your opinion, but I appreciate that you actually try to back up what you say rather than churn out meaningless crap. It appears you have some idea what you are talking about, rather than being anti Wii for the sake of being anti Wii
I am however curious as to what you said, would you PM it to me? I promise not to take any offense
Edited by Anzati on 22 September 2006 at 6:04pm
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Lord Darkstorm
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
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Xbox 360 games have seen a markup in price due to the added cost of making hidef games, with many games retailing at £50. PS3 games will probably follow this trend, especially if they make games for the ps3's maximum rated definition of 1080p. Not being hidef, wii games should remain at the current generation cost of £40.
Because of the added costs of making games for the X360 & PS3, there will be fewer developers willing to take a chance on something new, and focus on sequels to popular games, which they would see as less risky. This is not to say there will not be innovation, but there will be less. The cheapness of the wii devkit, coupled with the familarity and ease of development makes it more enticing to traditional developers, and the virtual console delivery method makes it very attractive to indie developers. Hopefully nintendo won't go down the path of sony and microsoft with microtransactions. Microsoft's Live arcade is very cool, but a bit sparse.
I very much doubt I'll ever get an X360, and If I do get a PS3, it won't be for about 3 years. The only game that so far has interested me on the ps3 is DMC4, which alone is not enough to make me want it. If a few decent rpgs come out for it, I may consider it, but right now, I have no desire to buy it, and no excitement of the console itself(in fact, the DRM-infested blue-ray drive lessens the interest for me, but this is for non-gaming reasons). In contrast, there are a slew of wii games that interest me: Trauma centre, Super mario galaxy, Super paper mario, Metal slug collection, Cooking Mama, Battalion wars 2, Disaster, Wii Sports, to name but a few.
If the wii is half as good as the DS has been, I'll be happy. Bah. I don't like typing this much...
Edited by Lord Darkstorm on 22 September 2006 at 6:36pm
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Rosalie
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 8:58pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| Oh dear as I thought you are talking speculative crap based on
screenshots, and not actual processing power of any kind. |
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What do you mean "speculative" crap!? If the Wii had power anywhere
near the 360, we'd have seen it by now. The graphics we have seen are
late era Gamecube quality with some added filters and slightly higher
draw distance.
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| You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about...out the window goes all credibility of your comments. |
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You think that actual real screenshots of how a console performs in
game don't indicate anything of the power. And all my credibility is
out the window. Where does that put yours?
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| I see for you value for money only stems as far as how pretty a game is and not actual gameplay value... |
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| A poweful console isn't worth sh*t, if the games on it are worthless. |
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This is just mindnumbingly stupid. A powerful console takes money to
make. A console with good games is up to developers. You don't put
"good gameplay" into a console like that.
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Screenshots arent evidence of anything. You keep wittering on about how the graphics are evidence of the machines power.
Not so, early PS2 graphics are far inferior to modern PS2 games, so how does that show the power of the machine is poor? |
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But if we compare early Wii to early 360, 360 still comes out on top.
Not only that, but because the Wii architecture is so similiar to the
Gamecube, it's much easier to get to grips with.
Your point is more than worthless.
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| Graphics count for nothing in this day and age, if they ever
really did, its all in the gameplay and the innovations the Wii is
looking to have will guarantee that the gameplay is very high. In fact
thats one thing that Nintendo have always done right. |
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Actually, we don't know yet that the gameplay will be consistantly
fantastic. We DO know that the graphics will be consistantly inferior.
It also depends what style of games you like. I really like games with
big, moving plots, like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy. Because of
that last generation I had both a Gamecube and a PS2. I don't see the
Wii deliverring on that front, at all. Zelda as a series is completely
autistic.
And Graphics do count for something. Some of the views in Oblivion are
quite simply breathtaking. If it weren't for graphics, we'd still be
stuck with crappy shaky Playstation One games with uber low res and
glitchy textures. I don't want that.
And again, just because they're not necessary, doesn't mean I should
have to pay anyway. If they're not going to offer fantastic graphics,
then they shouldn't be charging a price that suggests they're at least
trying to.
I haven't seen anyone even deal with this point, just throw out the
same stupid argument again and again. I don't care whether you are a
Nintendo fan or not, though most of the time this sentiment is coming
from that; or moreso, Wii fanboyism, as Wii had so many people excited
they don't want to admit they seriously f**ked up.
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| Your last point is moot, since the price isn't the same as the
core X-box as the Wii is £20 cheaper and £30 than it was on it's
launch... |
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That's absolutely atrocious reasoning. We know it's cheaper. But it's
STILL overpriced. It's not offering anywhere near the power and the
"Power" is generally what costs money to make. So they're charging for
thin air which is a dangerous practice for hardware.
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| Bloomin' hell, don't look at a PSP then! =O |
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Which plays mp3s and is about twice as powerful as the DS, at least? I
don't like the PSP much, but the actual hardware is better.
And I'm going to reiterate that anyone who thinks Wii is anywhere near
as good as the 360 graphics wise is delusional(also keep in mind that
the 360 is mae out of quite inefficent parts compared to a Nintendo
console, which can generally be produced very cheaply) -
Wii Sonic game - http://media.wii.ign.com/media/800/800277/img_3789314.html
X360 Sonic game - http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/749/749072/img_3876355.ht ml
These games are made by the same company.
Now, that's a piss poor Sonic model. Look up Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast, it's more or less the same.
Unfortunately, looking at red steel and far cry, it seems to be pretty
consistant that we get piss poor models and blurry textures.
Despite the fact that one is zoomed in(I tried to find the crappiest
pic of the 360 Sonic model, and I got that), it's blatant that one is
smooth with hi-res textures and the other is blocky with low-res
textures. It's around twice the polycount in the very least. If you
think the Wii shot compares to the 360 one, you need serious help. And
I'm serious. Your eyes can't be functioning correctly.
Edited by Rosalie on 22 September 2006 at 9:10pm
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Rodimus Prime
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
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Shall I repeat?
THE MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE HAS NEVER WON THE CONSOLE WAR!
GRAPHICS DONT COUNT FOR.... much
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Rosalie
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:09pm | IP Logged
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That doesn't matter for sh*t. I'm still not getting my money's worth with the Wii.
And actually, the SNES was the more powerful console, and that won.
That really isn't an argument. At all.
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Sirlagerlot
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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Rodimus Prime wrote:
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Shall I repeat?
THE MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE HAS NEVER WON THE CONSOLE WAR!
GRAPHICS DONT COUNT FOR.... much
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Exactly Rodimus, its the games that make or break a console, not the polygons
Y'know Rosalie, I don't think I've ever seen anyone agree with you on anything....could that be because you're wrong perchance?
Edited by Sirlagerlot on 22 September 2006 at 9:11pm
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Rosalie
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:12pm | IP Logged
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How in the hell does that justify overcharging?
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Y'know Rosalie, I don't think I've ever seen anyone agree with you on anything....could that be because you're wrong perchance?
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That's not an argument either. Majorities are famously ignorant.
And actually, there's only a small amount of people arguing this, and one of them does agree with me.
Edited by Rosalie on 22 September 2006 at 9:14pm
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Sirlagerlot
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:15pm | IP Logged
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So now, because people don't share your opinion, we're stupid?
Thanks. Appreciate that.
Edited by Sirlagerlot on 22 September 2006 at 9:15pm
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Randomness
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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So, I'm gonna buy myself a Wii. Anyone else buying a Wii?
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Rodimus Prime
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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Rosalie wrote:
And actually, the SNES was the more powerful console, and that won.
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Can you say
NEO GEO
I had one and graphics wise it kicked the SNES's ASS
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Randomness
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
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Rosalie wrote:
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How in the hell does that justify overcharging? |
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Last I checked the Wii games were a good monetary chunk cheaper than other games. I wouldn't really call that overcharging.
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Skeggy
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:12pm | IP Logged
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Randomness wrote:
| So, I'm gonna buy myself a Wii. Anyone else buying a Wii?
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Yes. Yes i am, so i can play the various interesting games like rayman
and the sonic game for it, which might i add, looks nothing like a SA
game...
Its actually supposedly out on my birthday, and generally to me it
seems better value for money considering the equipment the console
itself comes with (i think its more advanced than a 360 whatever way
you look at it, 360 is basically a bunch of computers bundled together,
a Wii is something different)
Anyway, so you seen the new trailers for DMC4 darkstorm? Its full of awesome. Seems like virgil might make a comeback somehow.
Also for all you DMC fans i feel i should point out, next week is
supposed to be the release date for the Devil May Cry 3 Special Edition
which is basically DMC3 with new levels etc and the ability to play
none other than virgil. And its only 11.99 on play!
Oh and also Tekken DR came out of the PSP yesterday, should be worth a look.
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Soundwave9504
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
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I maybe buy Wii or PSP future but let you know that new game release DeadRising in store today for X-360 as well as new other one Saint Row they more like 3-D gaming for X-360 what I seen as far on tv said in store by now this week.. thanks. 
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Skeggy
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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Dead Rising is out already....
Im playing it right now :P
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Rosalie
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| Posted: 22 September 2006 at 11:41pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| So now, because people don't share your opinion, we're stupid? |
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Because I'm outnumbered, I'm wrong?
Maybe if you'd focus on an actual argument it'd help quite a bit.
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| Last I checked the Wii games were a good monetary chunk cheaper
than other games. I wouldn't really call that overcharging. |
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But they are the same as last generation, which was overcharging too.
Nintendo SPECIFICALLY said that they were going to break this trend.
They haven't. They're STILL overpriced.
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