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joshlowe Combiner


Joined: 30 May 2005 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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Why no?
When I got all pro piracy about the movie, I'm pretty sure you inisted that due to home recording ease, TV show laws were un-enforceable and therefore not the same, and that, to the best of my knowledge, no one in the UK yet owns broadcast rights, and of course, this site was fine with links for Galaxy Force and One Piece.
Edited by joshlowe on 26 December 2007 at 4:38pm
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

Watching you
Joined: 30 May 2005 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 7:35pm | IP Logged
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joshlowe wrote:
Why no?
When I got all pro piracy about the movie, I'm pretty sure you inisted that due to home recording ease, TV show laws were un-enforceable and therefore not the same, and that, to the best of my knowledge, no one in the UK yet owns broadcast rights, and of course, this site was fine with links for Galaxy Force and One Piece.
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There are 9009 threads on this site; have you read them all? I haven't. Am I obliged to? No. If I'm asked what the site policy is I am going to give it - it is hardly my fault if things are happening outside of my knowledge, that's why we have moderators.
Is there something you wish to make a formal complaint about?
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joshlowe Combiner


Joined: 30 May 2005 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
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Duh_Prez wrote:
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There are 9009 threads on this site; have you read them all? I haven't. Am I obliged to? No. If I'm asked what the site policy is I am going to give it - it is hardly my fault if things are happening outside of my knowledge, that's why we have moderators. |
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Well I could have asked why not without explaining why I asked and looked like I was just being awkward or s**t stirring, but as I have since day one, I explain exactly where I come from when asking something, so it's clear.
Secondly, I'm not debating the site policy, I'm questioning whether this falls into that.
It wasn't permitted to post photos of the movie or post links to filmed footage (for obvious reasons), yet images and cam footage of the show was allowed. Hundreds of links to free to air TV shows, fan dubs, youtube have all been allowed too, and they are far to numerous for anyone to claim no knowledge of at least one. All of this suggests some copyrighted material is allowed and it's at the discretion of the mods as to what is a violation.
If this is the case, surely it's not wrong to question or debate individual decisions, either way.
If it's not the case and no copyrighted material at all is allowed, then you need to clairfy in the rules, as we've pretty much all linked to youtube, posted wavs etc, which suggests we need a clarification.
Duh_Prez wrote:
Is there something you wish to make a formal complaint about? |
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Yes.
I am genuinely unsure as to the site's policy on copyrighted video, due to a lack of definition in the rules and inconsistent moderation in regards to this stuff. There's no point getting snippy with me for "questioning policy" when the lack of text on the rules page and the contrdictary moderation means I don't know what the policy is.
If all copyrighted video material is not permitted, say so in the rules, and make sure the mods remove everything. Otherwise, you're sending out the wrong message and getting angry at people for getting it.
And if it's not, if it is down to discretion and for some reason no mod's decision may even be questioned or debated, say that too.
Edited by joshlowe on 26 December 2007 at 10:30pm
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Big Bot Moderators


Joined: 30 May 2005 Location: England
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
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I do think there has to be a general policy on TV/film/downloads/copyright material. There are lots of differences to each.
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
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In reply to Josh's most recent post;
There's no overreaching policy against the use of all copyrighted materials. This would not be an enjoyable website if we were never able to post media.
The site has no problem with members posting media within reason; as you rightly point out, that results in a degree of staff discretion, which is why the subject is not heavily detailed in the site rules (though I can easily amend those if it is still confuson). This area of discretion is to cover items such as screencaps, images, and small videos such as trailors. A decent 'rule' would be that we shouldn't allow the posting of items that are/are likely to be commercially available. So for instance, Screengrabs/images/trailors/and any officially released clips from TF:Animated are unlikely to be deemed unsuitable, wheras entire episodes (which are likely to be sold on DVD at some point) would be.
As I say, there is of course an area of staff discretion as there is with all rules, but this is the general site policy. Does that clear the issue up at all?
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Blaster Omega Sentinal

I find your lack of faith, disturbing.
Joined: 07 August 2007 Location: Germany
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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 10:46pm | IP Logged
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You can tell Josh is half German nit picking every forum detail and policy! thorough! I will give you that much Josh. But he is right! he as in Prez!! "what if" everyone could post up what they wanted? it would be chaos and utter messiness.
Me! I disagree with the whole screening and downloading this and that, it's ruining the Business world you know I have to say that!
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

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| Posted: 26 December 2007 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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Blaster wrote:
You can tell Josh is half German nit picking every forum detail and policy! thorough! I will give you that much Josh. But he is right! he as in Prez!! "what if" everyone could post up what they wanted? it would be chaos and utter messiness.
Me! I disagree with the whole screening and downloading this and that, it's ruining the Business world you know I have to say that! |
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Erm...thankyou, I think! But Josh isn't wrong in wanting clarification. People often use discretion as a way to mask their inability to make a stance; that isn't right, it is good to have somebody question the rules. They're our rules afterall. Discretion should be used to help bridge grey areas. I like things written down.
That said, the porn rule stands
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Sixshot Matrix Bearer

My new Mavis :) Prez
Joined: 02 June 2005
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 1:23am | IP Logged
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We're allowed it?
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 11:28am | IP Logged
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No
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Nemesis Scourge Matrix Bearer

The Unrivalled Entity of Darkness
Joined: 17 August 2005 Location: England
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
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Duh_Prez wrote:
| A decent 'rule' would be that we shouldn't allow the posting of items that are/are likely to be commercially available. So for instance, Screengrabs/images/trailors/and any officially released clips from TF:Animated are unlikely to be deemed unsuitable, wheras entire episodes (which are likely to be sold on DVD at some point) would be. |
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So basically, as long as we don't post links to episodes in their entirety, we can post whatever media links we like within reason, yes?
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Sirlagerlot Moderators

Probably the best forumer in the world
Joined: 02 June 2005 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
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Nem, what you need to ask yourself is WWFD. What Would Freefalll Do.
If the answer is "Yes, Freefall would do that" then I'd strongly recommend NOT posting it!
Edited by Sirlagerlot on 27 December 2007 at 1:04pm
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 1:13pm | IP Logged
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Nemesis Scourge wrote:
Duh_Prez wrote:
| A decent 'rule' would be that we shouldn't allow the posting of items that are/are likely to be commercially available. So for instance, Screengrabs/images/trailors/and any officially released clips from TF:Animated are unlikely to be deemed unsuitable, wheras entire episodes (which are likely to be sold on DVD at some point) would be. |
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So basically, as long as we don't post links to episodes in their entirety, we can post whatever media links we like within reason, yes?
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Nah, that would mean we could post the new movie in HD in it's entirity, split into two videos rather than one. That wouldn't be right.
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Sirlagerlot Moderators

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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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Basically, nothing that is, or is likely to be available via purchase-able means can be posted, stuff that is not, or is unlikely to be so can be?
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Galvanise_ City Commander

Damn you Bay. Damn you.
Joined: 30 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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We could in theory post a message asking that the member contact 'the link holder' via PM. That way the link would not appear actually in the forum, and everyone is happy. . .
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Nemesis Scourge Matrix Bearer

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Joined: 17 August 2005 Location: England
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
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Sirlagerlot wrote:
| Nem, what you need to ask yourself is WWFD. What Would Freefalll Do.
If the answer is "Yes, Freefall would do that" then I'd strongly recommend NOT posting it! |
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Thanks a bunch, I've now a vivid image of the South Park mob singing a song on 'What Would Freefalll Do' in my head!!
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Duh_Prez Dark god (All Powerful)

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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 3:21pm | IP Logged
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Sirlagerlot wrote:
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Basically, nothing that is, or is likely to be available via purchase-able means can be posted, stuff that is not, or is unlikely to be so can be?
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Basically, yes... well that's what I think is the best route anyway.
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Galvanise_ City Commander

Damn you Bay. Damn you.
Joined: 30 July 2006 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 4:02pm | IP Logged
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While we are on this topic,
Why is it that fansites such as TFW2005.com can post pictures of unreleased material, design sketches etc from the movie while it is in progress, and we can't.
Do TFW2005 have some sort of dodgy agreement with the film makers as a way to 'leak' designs?
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fudgecrumpet Herald of Unicron

Knows first hand how Prez tastes.
Joined: 25 August 2006 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 27 December 2007 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
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But what about stuff that is nigh on impossible to get hold of? For example half the armada episodes, near enough all of energon and almost all of cybertron, which have recieved sod all in the way of repeat tv showings and arent available on dvd until sometime in the future when my beard is really really long.
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Sirlagerlot Moderators

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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 10:02am | IP Logged
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Galvanise_ wrote:
While we are on this topic,
Why is it that fansites such as TFW2005.com can post pictures of unreleased material, design sketches etc from the movie while it is in progress, and we can't.
Do TFW2005 have some sort of dodgy agreement with the film makers as a way to 'leak' designs?
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I'm not sure if it's a case of "Can" rather than "Do"
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fudgecrumpet Herald of Unicron

Knows first hand how Prez tastes.
Joined: 25 August 2006 Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 28 December 2007 at 10:37am | IP Logged
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I would have thought that links to stuff would have no legal bother for the site, the only thing that would be an issue would be actually hosting all the dodgy data.
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